After a lovely evening in Shrewsbury with my friend, we decided to go to Reflex for a dance. During a dance we witnessed a man aggressively speaking to another man who was innocently dancing with us.
As this seemed very unfair and caused distress to us. My friend thought it best to tell the bouncers to avoid any altercations taking place.
The bouncer removed the man and we thought that was all sorted and began to carry on with our night out.
The bouncer then came in and asked my friend to go outside too, where we were accused of lying and causing trouble, we were verbally abused by the man and his friends, which the bouncer did nothing about.
We were asked to leave the premises, even though we were the innocent party who had wanted to avoid any trouble.
We would just like to warn other mature people who want a good night out to avoid getting involved in trying to help others if they don’t want to be victimised themselves.
This is a sad state of affairs in our town and feel the bouncers need a lesson in customer relations. We will now be avoiding Reflex for the foreseeable future.
19 Comments
bouncers lets face it are just a bunch of yobos employed by clubs now they are licenced but having witnessed them gaining there certificates it is rather worrying .
The above however has always happened year in year out, it is i think best not to use the club you can also issue a complaint against the club and the bouncer concerned and try and get the bouncer’s certificate revoked especially if you witnessed any form of assault or were threatened in any way . .
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This bouncer is well known for his zero-tolerance, hardline appraoch to his job, which to be fair means there is little trouble, but he has annoyed a lot of innocent punters in the process.
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The trouble with bouncers is that the bigger their muscles the smaller the brain
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zero tollerance ???just a cowboy with no brain, he clearly can not tell the difference between trouble and non confrontaion debate , as for being accused of lying, being a trouble maker etc they in general cant discuss things as they are not bright enough too, sadly there poorly paid knuckle draggers.
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Ow here we go. Everyone have a verbal beat up of the door staff. Ok so next time you get into hot water in town we wont step in. You people really dont see how hard this job is. You think we just swan around night clubs chatting up women. Well if any of you think you can do a better job: Get registered on the course, pay the 400 pounds worth of Fees, fill out the extensive application form and apply for a job.
Heres the thing, the people in this letter talk about how they were the innocent party and how they were victimised. Ok so why didnt they write a letter of complaint to the manager at reflex, ask for CCTV evidence, refer it to the police or SIA authority. The ansewer is because they werent innocent. None of you were there and although you might all think your the authority on the matter. Your not, the fact is until any of you have seen (from our point of view) what Door staff do weekend after weekend you will never reallise or appreciate that we are infact what stands between you and the man with a bottle and a grudge. So next time your so willing to tell us about our problems, why not look at your own. These people obviously didnt. Remeber we are the ones watching your back so you can have a nice night. And where not all muscly no brained yobos. Thank you
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I agree i have worked with the doorman in question for nearly three years and he has continually made the place a safe place to drink and work.People really dont know what working in a club is like for staff or doorstaff.
This doorman is a credit to the place and keeps peoples safety to his top priority, as do most door staff so no they are not out to get you just to keep you safe!!!!
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I agree not all doorman are bad, I have found that the best doorman are those that are prepared to talk to people and to resolve the situation peacefully, though I totally agree with some people talking to them would be a waste of time and action is needed.
I have worked at places where doormen were employed, and where doormen from other places would come for a drink, and it is as if they have to prove how tough they are in front of their friends, I have seen doormen deliberately create a situation which they hope would lead to violence and give them just cause to use their fists.
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I have to add to this debate that over the years I attended Flares and now Reflex with friends and have very rarely seen the doormen need to intervene and when it has been done so have found any action to be completely appropriate and if it can be believed non-violent!
In this case it is unfortunate that these people were ejected from the club but if a claim is made from one person - the easiest approach for the safety of everyone inside the club is to remove anyone and everyone involved in an incident.
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My answer to jamie b, i have seen the course mentioned first hand yep it cost £400 not enough in my book , but the pass rate is 100% you can not fail it,it is low paid work for a reason , the form is long but basic, and yes as i have said earlier the person should make the relevant complaint to the right people and make a formal complaint to the police if they were abused in any way .
the person also had a complaint about the treatment they recieved at the club and chose to air it via the public domain again with in there rights .
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Having read both the letter and the comments placed, I have to say that it seems a little unfair that these individuals were ejected for supposed ‘trouble causing’. Surely it would have been better to deal with the person causing the trouble in such a manner that they were not only ejected but also led away from the club so that honest party goers could go about their business? Quite how I dont know but one would hope that if a person is granted this type of licence, they are also taught how to deal with potentially volatile situations in such a manner as to diffuse it. Negotiation and dilpomacy would go a long way in this trade!
My experience with doormen hasnt been pleasant as physical violence has always played a massive part (not that I get myself thrwon out of clubs or anything), with or without licences so thats the main reason why I avoid these places like the plague. Thats not to say that all doormen are the same.
I think the author of this letter should complain to the club as they obviously feel upset by their treatment of the doormen. If anything, it may give the club owner an indication of the public’s perspective of doormen, which can always be changed.
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The club is liable for the doormans behavior, I SUGGEST YOU COMPLAIN TO THE CORRECT AUTHORITY,if the club do not give you a decent explanation .
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I just take exception to being refered to as a “Yobo”, “poorly paid knuckly head” and having it implied that I have more muscles than brains. Non of the above are true, Im well paid, I avoid physical conflict up to the point where it is safe and I am certainly not a yobo. Yes there are Door Staff out there who have become Door Staff just for a fight. But the majoirty are level headed, decent human beings and at the end of the day thats all we are is human. We make mistakes like everyone else. I dont see people writing into the paper when we’ve pulled an agressive punter of them.
I think alot of people are being very short sighted, you dont appreciate that the venue is over all more safe as a result of our zero tolerence. Its more than likely the people making the complaint did something at some point to provoke either the other party or the door staff. Everyone thinks their so innocent. Well quite frankly its rubbish. Mr Finch can I ask what experience you have in the matter as you seem to be the authority. Have you worked the doors?
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no i have never worked the doors i question your view (. Its more than likely the people making the complaint did something at some point to provoke either the other party or the door staff. )This is a very poor view and i think a police officer taking the same view would most definatly come unstuck. i would most definatly not repeat this if i were you in a court scenario.(think what you have said and put it in to different scenarios)
I have sat in on these courses and im sorry you may be an exception, but many are not at all very bright and i do not mean that in a nasty way , as for being well paid well that to be honest is a matter of opinion .
The general public have the right to complain and take legal action against the club if they so wish and on occasion the club need to be reminded that they are liable for there doormens behavior. and poor behavior by the doormen be it vocal or physical should not be permitted, i would also remind doormen you escourt from the premises you do not get physical if you do you are breaking the law and you and the club are open to prosection should the victim wish to persue
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I’ve known a number of the door staff (as there are more and more women working on the doors of pubs and clubs) in Shrewsbury and when it comes down to it they’ve not got an easy job and not one I’d like to do.
In regards to Doorstaff Shrewsbury has improved in leaps and bounds over the last 10+ years. I remember friends not getting into bars and clubs in town simply because they’d got the ‘wrong’ type of shoes on. Thankfully this isn’t so much the case anymore and, apart from a couple of establishments, you can get in anywhere as long as you’re (reasonably) sober and in good spirits.
It’s also worth noting that door staff are not police and their area of responsibility, legally, only extends a few feet from the door of their place of work.
I fear that when it comes down to it the problem is not with the door staff but with the clientelle of the establishment and, as such, this leads to a certain type of response in dealing with trouble. At the end of the day that bouncer did his job in removing any possible trouble from the premises. All he may be guilty of is lacking in diplomacy about it.
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Andrew Finch, I teach the SIA door course and can assure you it is not a 100% pass rate. You seem ill informed, The SIA regulate the industry, they do not regulate clubs etc etc. Every individual accessing the place is then a guest of the owner, weather they pay a fee or not, it is private property, and the job of the doorman is to ensure that only people who are wanted there are in there, this can be revoked at any time, hence removal or ejection.
Not being a witness, can i state weather these ladies were rightfully removed or not, but the end product is that they had outstayed there welcome on private premises, and were asked to leave, if they had refused or returned into the premisis they would then be commiting the offence of trespass. The SIA nor the police will intervene in this, other to check that the door staff are licenced with the SIA. The only recourse people have is to write to the owner who would then investigate.
As for physical removal, this is a last resort, but is legal, using home office approved holds and restraint techniques, you may also use any physical force as deemed necassary in the eyes of the law, so your comment is again factually flawed. I doubt very much you have attended any of these courses due to your inaccuracies and general lack of subject knowledge.
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paul d,
i never said they regulate the clubs? i actually question your facts, i have attended and have witnessed the characters sent on the above courses. as said i have not said the sia regulate the clubs ..so do not put words imn my mouth .
Door men are not sudo policemen they are door men physical removal as seen fit in the eyes of the law as you put it, is very hazy assault is assault doormen or not evicting from a premises or not if proven it is assault or worse .
you are correct the owner of the club is entitled to let in who he wishes and evict who he wishes , his doormen have no right to assault or insult , the doormen are employees of the club any actions taken by the clubs bouncers, the club owners ARE reasponsible for , i never stated the police would intervene if some one is evicted from a club what i said was if a case of assault was reported then the victims have a right to demand the police investigate , if a bouncer is convicted etc he no longer works he cant hence he has no licence / certificate ,
a customer can complain via the newspapers if they wish or and make it a legal matter and again the club is liable for the bouncers actions .
As for the pass rate i again question you on this if it is not 100%pass it is 99%pass infact i would actually say the takers of the licence are guided very well through there answers etc etc HOW MANY CHANCES DO THEY GET ??? IT SHOULD BE CALLED GIVE US A CLUE ?or has it changed in the last 12 months ?
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i think that bouncers need people skills ! take a look at telford ice rink bouncers !!assertive is the key not bullies
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Andrew I appreciate where your coming from. I wouldnt like to work in this indutry if it was full of power mad nutters. Theirs a large majority out there who think we knock people back or chuck people out just for the fun of it. As paul said Physical Interaction is very much a last of last resort. We dont like to ruin peoples night, but one way of making sure peoples nights arnt ruined is to remove them from the club. It might sound stupid logic, but its quite simple. If you have to much to drink, become agressive or dont wear the appropriate clothing (that the venue lays down, based on the license) then it is their fault. Blaming the doormen for their inability to hold there drink responsibly or not have the common sense to wear shoes is just blame not fair.
Sorry if the above doesnt make any sense, im tired.
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We would just like to respond to some of these points of view, firstly, we did nothing to provoke the other party or the doorstaff, we were merely trying to prevent a fight starting right next to us on the dancefloor, we should not have been asked to leave as we did absolutely nothing wrong and we should not have been made to stand outside with the other party involved verbally and physically abusing us, with the bouncers watching and doing nothing but stand between us. The police did become involved because i went over and got them involved as we said before we did not want the situation getting any more out of hand. The police listened to our side and advised us to walk away as they could see we werent able to get our point across and agreed with us it was an unfair situation but we all thought this the best option. We do believe the doormen usually do a good job but on this occasion they did not and have put our faith in doormen in question.
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