Ambulance service bosses today released figures which they claim show there is “no significant drain” on Shropshire resources when ambulances are sent out of the county to calls in the West Midlands.
The issue of cross-border calls has led to a row over leaked documents which last week resulted in the suspension of three Shrewsbury-based staff.
Two have now been reinstated but ambulance technician Steve Jetley remains suspended pending an investigation by the West Midlands Ambulance Trust into a possible breach of the Data Protection Act.
He produced information showing that while Shropshire ambulances were being used in the West Midlands, it had taken longer to deal with an emergency call in Shropshire than the standard response time.
He is expected to be interviewed next week.
Today the trust said it researched the way it “flexes resources” so that a response is sent as quickly as possible to every patient.
Figures for April to July showed that Shropshire ambulances operated outside the county on 179 occasions. Ambulances from other localities operated inside the county 166 times.
“These figures clearly demonstrate that there is only a slight loss of resources from Shropshire,” said a spokesman.
“This trust is proud that it sends ambulances as quickly as possible to each and every patient, whatever type of call. Staff and managers are very aware that there is a need to make sure resources are spread evenly so that an appropriate level of cover is maintained in all areas.”
But Ray Salmon, a full-time official trade union Unison, said the argument was about maintaining local control and vital local knowledge. “You can’t send this number of ambulances out of county and expect the same level of local knowledge to be retained,” he said.
Meanwhile the proposal to reorganise control centres across the region – including the closure of Shrewsbury – will be the focus of public meetings at the Shirehall, Shrewsbury, on August 28 and Civic Offices, Telford, on August 30.
By Dave Morris
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21 Comments
What is the phrase?
Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics.
It’s easy to make figures say whatever you want. Just look at the way the ‘new’ WMAS hit their 8 minute targets.
Hitting the Target – Missing The Point.
I just hope that the people of our county will push for further investigations into the running of the west midlands ambulance Service.
We (ambulance staff) could all evidence the ‘wrongs’ that are happening on a day to day basis. The problem is that we are working for a dictatorial employer that will do anything to get the ‘party line’ across to the public.
Everything in the garden rosy? I think not.
Very basically qualified volunteers responding to our people within 8 minutes. Then waiting in some cases for 30 minutes for an ambulance to turn up. Why the long wait? Because your ambulance crews are being split to work on two cars instead. This makes eight minutes achievable in double the amount of cases.
When you do eventually get a crew, there’s a good chance that only one of them will be qualified as a technician or a paramedic because we now have ‘drivers’. Of course, I’m sure that this has nothing at all to do with the fact that two qualified staff cost more.
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CAN I ASK YOU THEN WHY A TELFORD PATIENT HAD TO WAIT FOR ME TO RETURN 40 MINUTES FROM BIRMINGHAM. THE PATIENT IN QUESTION WAS SERIOUSELY ILL UNLIKE THE PATIENT I WENT FOR IN BIRMINGHAM !!!!!!!!!!
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You can make statistics say whatever you want them to say – these days, ambulance service managers live or die by their response times (how quickly the responding crew hits the ‘on scene’ button on their radio – if its within 8 mins that’s all that counts).
So I’d take the latest Ambulance Trust claims with a pinch of salt. They’ve already been caught telling untruths, after all.
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How anyone can believe a thing put out by the completely discredited WMAS press department astounds me. They are caught out misleading the public again and again, and yet the drivel that they spout is still published as fact. What a strange world this is.
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Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics!!
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Ambulance service bosses are very good at publishing figures they want the public to see. How these figures reflect the true situation or how they would stand up to scrutiny is an entirely different matter.
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It all comes down to who you trust. The box ticker’s in management positions or the ones left trying to make do and cope at the other end. Regardless of service Fire, Police or Ambulance, management continue to stretch the resources to their absolute limit in the search for increased performance. Performance indicators and ticks in the correct box are what drives managers these days and not what is best for the public. Most will be on some sort of bonus related pay and without achieving those continuous targets bonuses will be with held. Therefore figures produced by a biased management prove nothing.
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These Figures are patently ridiculous. All they prove is that there are lies, damn lies, and then theres statistics.
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If only the same amount of effort had been put into preventing the lives of the people of Shropshire being put at risk as to finding a way to cover up the facts. Not once has any attempt been made to answer the simple fact that documents were produced that offer incontrovertible proof that a resident of Shropshire had to wait 16 minutes, not for an ambulance to arrive, but just for one to be allocated. I fear nothing will be done until someone, inevitably, dies.
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“no significant drain” on Shropshire resources when ambulances are sent out of the county to calls in the West Midlands.
WELL THERE YOU HAVE IT THEN, AN ADMISSION FROM THE TRUST, THAT SUCH ACTIONS HAVE INDEED BEEN A DRAIN ON THIS COUNTIES COVERAGE OF AMBULANCE PERSONNEL.
I GUESS NOTHING WILL NOW CHANGE UNTIL A CORONOR PLACES A COMMENT IN HIS REPORT FOLLOWING A FATALITY THAT HAS SADLY RESULTED IN THIS ACTION BEING CARRIED OUT BY THE SO CALLED TRUST.
I DO HOPE THAT THEY CAN LIVE WITH THEIR CONSCIENCE AFTERWARDS.
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So our over paid managers in the West Midlands Ambulance Service consider sending ambulance from Shropshire out off the area safe, I think not, the real measure is the time it took for the ambulance going out and into the area to arrive at the emergency. More smoke and mirrors from a management team that should be externally investigated and then resign.
No Queens Ambulance Medal for this Chief Executive!
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I been involved trying to help the Ambulance members of staff in Shropshire since the start of this mess. Firstly to close Shropshires last link to keeping any hold on our resources would be a severe loss, to the area. The consultation has become a sham .This is due to the very same people who came up with this proposal, being the same people who say they will listen to our views, then decide to close it, when they vote on also Hereford and Worcestershire’s control in the beginning of October.
Democracy, a fair hearing, truthful comments, and statements from this Management team led by Anthony Marsh then sadly I think not.
The only way to resolve the consultation is it should be halted and an Independent inquiry be set up to look closely at the dealings and methods that have been used by this Management team who have lost all respect of the staff and also wish to have him removed from his position as Chief Executive of the West Midlands Ambulance Service.
Regarding the three members of staff who were suspended it is hoped that Management did not reinstate two of them to subdue the members of staff to them go for Steve Jetley. SUPPORT STEVE he did what was the only thing that would allow the public of Shropshire to know exactly what is going on within this Management team. We should not live in fear that if we speak out we will loose our job that is not and cannot be freedom of speech on a matter that was in the publics interest.
With regard these figures that were used in the report in the Shropshire Star having asked so many questions and heard so many false replies I would be very interested to see dates and times of all these so called movements into Shropshire from Ambulances from outside the County. Members of staff are stating these figures are misleading and that the truth is that Shropshire has been left with fewer vehicles than it needs to respond properly to Emergencies ..
FOUR Ambulances in one day sitting at hospitals in West mids that is the truth of the matter.
Please if you wish to keep your Ambulance 999 control room in Shropshire and also support Steve Jetley please E-Mail saveourservice@aol.co.uk
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We the staff of the service know the truth , 3 or 4 ambulances a day sometimes sent to west midlands, and no cover what so ever sent back the other way. In the birmingham area they have no ambulances they have lots of cars to make the times on 999 calls, but no ambulances to back up those cars or to respond to non 999 calls, so when it comes to the hundreds of doctors referals(non 999)calls they have a week they cannot transport the patients, thats why shropshire ambulances are sent, 3 and 4 at a time.
Lies lies lies, when will it stop……..when a child has been run over or a lady can not breath in shropshire and a shrops vehicle has to run back from birmingham to them and they are too late, perhaps then something will be done.
You can make statistics look and read how you want and when you have the PR spin doctor mr macgregor behind them then the worlds your oyster !!!!!! Please please someone from the public write to them under the freedom of information act and ask them to go into detail on these figures,we as employees cannot you have seen what happens when we question them.
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Isn’t it sad the way things have gone in Shropshire with the Ambulance Service?
Remember the previous ‘West Mids’ managers and executives, who took the county on as a part of their own service but made it separately managed in many ways. All the strengths of a larger entity while retaining local values. Managers who had visions for perhaps a new Control Centre for Shropshire, accomodating NHS Direct and Shropdoc…a truly integrated centre. A plan which got scrapped by the Strategic Health Authority (aka Government) as the plan for a larger West Midlands Trust got formulated.
It was no surprise to see these (extremely experienced) managers *not* be successful in applying for jobs in the ‘new’ Trust. Hence the wave of ‘retirements’. There was always a hidden agenda of the way this new Trust was going to go and now we can see it.
Seen it, done it and got the T shirt in my own Service.
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Please, please, please can someone who knows how to, set up a public inquiry? We (as staff) are very limited as to what we can do due to the (very real) threat of disciplinary action. You can see from the comments on here that the staff have a total mistrust of anything that comes from the WMAS press office. Come on Joe Public, it’s your service that is being eroded, de-skilled and down-graded!!!
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If they is “no significant drain” on Shropshire resources in Shropshire. How come volunteer Ambulances Societies (VAS)are covering County??
Bad weather or floods i can understand, as i seen the VAS’s 4×4 ambulance during snow and floods. but having them coming in and out of station some night and weekends is making me wonder what state the WMAS is in, to have to use volunteers to crew ambulances.
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To be fair, the use of volunteer crews is normal practice in many Services now, including my own. Yes, in an ideal world they would not be needed. But we don’t live in an ideal world and on occasions at times of heavy demand they can be invaluable. I think most Services saw a big ’spike’ in 999 calls on the Friday that most schools broke up and holidays started; I think at times like these volunteers *can* be helpful.
What does concern me is that St Johns/Red Cross have four wheel drive capability which the full time Service doesn’t always have; purchasing 4×4’s for inclement weather doesn’t come high on the list of priorities (and yet 4×4’s are frequently purchased for use in urban areas as Rapid Respose Vehicles where a four while drive capability isn’t really required; but hey, they look good so who cares?, says management!)
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Agree with several of the posts above- we need the people of Shropshire to help us help them!!
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Lets see the evidence for the claim that Shropshire ambulances operated outside the county on 179 occasions and ambulances from other localities operated inside the county 166 times. Do these figures relate to the doctors’ referrals (non-999s) Shropshire, Hereford and Worcester and in October 2007, Staffordshire ambulance services carry out each day from hospitals in their own localities into Birmingham hospitals? These are the journeys that deplete emergency cover in our areas. Sure, there is two-way traffic between Shropshire and the Birmingham Black Country area. It’s just much heavier in one direction than the other. Many, many more vehicles travel from Shropshire to Birmingham Black Country than the other way around. Ditto Hereford and Worcester locality. Many, many more vehicles travel from our area into Birmingham Black Country than vice versa. As you’d expect. Look at the hospitals in the West Midlands area as opposed to those in Shropshire and in Herefordshire and + Worcestershire. The Queen Elizabeth hospital might book a transfer from one of its wards to the Alexandra Hospital in Redditch but H + W hospitals book transfer patients to QE, Selly Oak, Solihull, Birmingham Maternity, Birmingham Childrens, Birmingham Heartlands, Dudley Road City Hospital, New Cross, Walsgrave as well as other hospitals. It should also be noted that the April to July timeframe includes July’s floods. A February to May timeframe would reflect a more usual state of affairs. A point that seems to have been missed by WMAS Trust Board is that the flood situation could happen again. If H + W and Shropshire ambulance controls are closed how would Brierley Hill and Tollgate control rooms manage if all local knowledge has been eradiacted?
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adding to the above i am sure that the air ambulance missions are to included in the out of county details. Well not sure, i know ! ….
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Be of good cheer Shropshire Ambulance staff. This thread shows just how much resentment there is with regard to this proposal. There is just as much opposition if not more in Worcester as Liz Kabani (above) shows. No matter what argument the management puts forward in favour of this proposal, they can be shot down in flames becaues quite simply, they have not done their research. They have merely plucked a measure out of the sky, usually at the wim of a management “butterfly” who wishes to further his career and then disapears after the damage has been done to do something similar in another place. I detect that there is much anger over this from both staff and public and it will be a brave but very stupidly incompetent boss who implements it in the face of this. When they are dealing with the emergency health and injury facilities of the public, in the face of ruination of the rest of the NHS, they would do well to tread very carefully, something they have patently not done so far.
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